Cloud getting in fights?

[sekiharatae]

Hey...

Anyone have anymore back story regarding Cloud getting into fights as a kid?  I got the impression -- from his words -- that he's the one who started the fights, but he's not the belligerent type.  So I'm wondering if that's the wrong impression (i.e. he was involved in fights, but he didn't start them) or it's the right impression, and I'm missing something?  Or, alternatively, I have the right impression and they just didn't elaborate on it, so I should feel free to make up my own Cloud-plausible reason.

Comments

[meimi.livejournal.com]

Well, he's not that type anymore... XD Oh man, I know they touch upon this in the game but it's been, what, ten years since I last played it? Hmm, as best as I can recall he got picked on because he and his mother were outsiders in the village (or because she's really strange... or something). And then he got real insistent about being in SOLDIER, to an obnoxious level most likely. :D;; I wouldn't be surprised if he started some of the fights. Boys will be boys. ^^;;

Have you played the game yet? It's one of the easier sort of turn based RPGs. Granted, the graphics are hideous at this late a date, but it's still a great game nonetheless. Or if you're not inclined to play, I'm sure there are a lot of video playthroughs lying around the net. It would help clear up some stuff that walkthroughs and summaries just don't touch upon. =\

[kotono.livejournal.com]

They were probably outsiders for the fact Cloud was without a father.

[sekiharatae.livejournal.com]

I've played the game, but it's been awhile. I did go and look it up on Youtube =) He says: "I got out of control... I'd get into fights not even caring who it was."

[meimi.livejournal.com]

Hooray for video playthroughs~ \o/

[sekiharatae.livejournal.com]

It's so funny to watch these little pixel people nodding and shaking their heads.

[qwi-xux.livejournal.com]

Shoot, you know, I played through FFVII at the beginning of this year and I think there was something in it...I can't remember if Tifa said something or Cloud did. I think it was Cloud. I want to say that he was talking about how after Tifa's fall on the mountain, when he blamed himself for it, he started getting angrier and picking fights. I'll see if I can find it and get back to you.

[sekiharatae.livejournal.com]

I looked it up on youtube. It doesn't really tell me what I want to know though; it's ambiguous. Beyond saying he was angry at himself for his weakness, it doesn't state *why* he got into fights. But I guess the implication is that he started fighting to try and get stronger, and he was reckless about it.

Which is not such a good reason. I'd like to use a better one. =(

[http://users.livejournal.com/jane_drew_/]

Having never played, I don't know if my chiming in here makes sense, but the two comments above make sense-- in particular the idea that Cloud got more likely to start fights after Tifa's accident. I kind of picture Cloud getting picked on constantly, but reaching a point where, rather than waiting for the other kids to start with the shoving and tripping and whatever, he would just bare his teeth and leap in, with no regard for the size or number of his opponents.

So, getting beaten up or being the target of fights before Tifa's accident; post-accident, really short fuse? Factoring in the idea of the puny blond outsider kid wanting to join SOLDIER as a source of mockery for the other kids, and... yeah, I can see that.

JD

[sekiharatae.livejournal.com]

chime in all you want! =)

Definitely makes sense. I just want to introduce a... softer reason. Phooey.

[qwi-xux.livejournal.com]

The part you mentioned, and Windrider expanded on, was the exact part I was thinking of--that Cloud had started fights after Tifa's accident because he was angry and blamed himself.

Is there a particular reason you wanted to introduce a softer reason? I think one of the things that adds to Cloud as a character is that he is not always soft. Obviously, Cloud blaming himself is something he's struggled with from childhood through adulthood. As a child, it wasn't like the other kids didn't pick on him, but he was still...well, normal. I mean, he was normal in the sense of a kid who acts up for a reason that other people might not understand unless they do some deep digging. He was quite a different kind of child than Denzel or Marlene, but I'm sure it helped teach him some life lessons. You know, "Don't make my mistakes" sort of lessons. Or maybe given him eyes to see that if a child seems to be a bully or is angry all the time or...whatever...that he/she could very well have a deeper reason behind it.

[sekiharatae.livejournal.com]

There is a reason, but I can't really go into detail w/o spoiling what I'm working on (and I like to shock and amaze surprise you all with my plot twists).

There's another question I could ask to approach it differently, but I think it would probably be too obvious then. Phooey, again. =(

[(Anonymous)]

just have to throw in my two cents (ca-ching) - I think JD nailed it on the nose (pixalated Cloud points to nose in a 'me?' moment). You can even see a bit of it in the beginning of FFVII as Cloud deals with Barret (I'm particularly thinking of the time down in the pinball hideout at Seventh Heaven where he gets right up in Barret's face (and up on his toes to do it too!)). Short fuse, 'I'm done being pushed around' mentality (there's nothing like having been put in a mental cage in your youth to make you damn determined to never, NEVER let anyone put you back there again and I say that from experience and yes, the reactions to an attempt can lead to violence). Cloud was a bit of a bad boy in his youth. He seems to mellow and be more 'himself' after the Lifestream dip with Tifa. Nothing like knowing who you really are to make other people's opinions irrelevant. By AC/ACC he seems - well, depressed - but also much calmer and less (confrontational/fly off the handle/belligerent/pick one). At that point the only time he seems to get emotional in a fight is when someone he considers under his protection is threatened (Tifa, when he goes to get the kids from Kadaj, Sephiroth trying to -again- do in the planet, the twins trying to take him away from his family by killing him). He's short with the Turks but he hears them out even though they were his enemy less than two years ago. He shows a surprising amount of sympathy toward Kadaj in the end battle and even when he's fighting the other two siblings in the motorcycle tunnel, there's not a lot of emotion on his face and he's obviously focusing past them and on getting kadaj with his jenova sample. Honestly? I just think Cloud finally figured out who he really is in the Lifestream and made peace with it and I think he matured. Between the two, I see him being much calmer and relaxed by CoT, ACC (sans depression) and DoC. And - yeah - being more aware of the kids because of what he remembers from his own childhood. But during his youth - hey, how much can you poke a stick at a wolf before it starts to snarl back? Childhood Cloud could either be a scrapper and fight back or he could let the other kids and adults convince him he really wasn't worth anything and give in. If it helps - while both he and Tifa remember him getting into fights all the time - neither one of them ever said he was a bully. - Tam

ps

[(Anonymous)]

oh - and AFTER a good night's sleep, I realize - there's really nothing like going through hell to make the day to day annoyances seem pretty mild and not worth getting upset over anymore.

[windrider1.livejournal.com]

You know I'm gonna have the answer... LOL. It's almost creepy how much I've played/analysed this game. Annnnnyway. Here's the actual script:

Cloud (while in the lifestream)

"Tifa was in a coma for seven days."
"We all thought she wouldn't make it."
"If only I could've saved her..."
"I was so angry... Angry at myself for my weakness."
"Ever since then, I felt Tifa blamed me..."
"I got out of control... I'd get into fights not even caring who it was."

There you have it. Hope that helped. :D

[sekiharatae.livejournal.com]

LOL! *hugs*

Yup, you are a font of FFVII knowledge =)

Cloud and fights

[(Anonymous)]

I have only heard that he got into fights because he "thought he was better than everyone", so looked down on them. Lonely, rejected kids are that way sometimes--sometimes they feel superior and withdraw in lonely isolation. That would have made him edgy, prickly, easily offended and thus, prone to fighting in a population of kids that knew and expected he would react to whatever they did in that manner. I would think growing up, esp. in the tight discipline of the military and of course the terror of Hojo and everything subsequent would mellow him out if it didn't kill him. But then, "canon" for me has always been contaminated by own projections and those of fan fiction writers who skillfully make me believe what I need to believe..... so go for it. Make-up what you will 'cause, for me, it's all OK the way you do it. Mom Calling

[amethyst-key.livejournal.com]

Okay, this may not make a lot of sense because... well, I just thought of it, but here goes:

Cloud doesn't get angry a lot, or rather, he controls his anger well. But, at times when he's REALLY angry, he might loose control... like when Tifa was in a coma and he felt it was his fault. (Though, I can't see Cloud loosing control JUST because he's angry. I think there would have to be some kind of contributing factor(s), like guilt.)

Also, there's only so much a person can take. After ten years of being picked on and being an outcast might have really pissed Cloud off... to the point of violence. That, combined with his feels that he couldn't protect Tifa, might have just set him off. Cloud does tend to blame himself.

Also, the neighborhood kids might have been saying something like: "You let her get hurt", which would have made Cloud feel even more guilty and even more angry at himself. People who are angry at themselves tend to lash out at other people.

Okay, take me for example. I don't get angry a lot... at least not to the point of physical violence. But, there had been times when I've gotten so angry and my life felt so out of control that I felt like a was going to break down and/or explode. I once ended up kicking a hole in the wall. And it was pretty much before I knew it. One second I'm trembling, feeling totally out of control, and the next my converse is stuck in the wall. Some part of me had control, but most of me just didn't care. Stuff like that can happen without even realizing it. Cloud DID say he was "out of control".

Well, those are a few of my thoughts... >.>' I hope they make some measure of sense.